Local Preachers’ Group on John's Gospel
Notes on John 16: 12 - 15
At first we questioned whether this reading was a suitable reading for Trinity Sunday or whether another would have been better. After a short discussion we decided that, when taken with the other lectionary readings for this Sunday, it was most suitable. We felt that, unlike many of the passages we have studied, this was one which could be taken out of context and stand alone. We were initially worried about the male nature of the Holy Spirit, but felt that if the reading from Proverbs where Wisdom is female were included it could be argued that Wisdom is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit; and this would counter the male dominance of the gospel. We asked the question when the Holy Spirit became male, rather than the female idea seen in Proverbs and Wisdom literature. We understand that in Celtic Christianity the Spirit is female. Is Wisdom the Holy Spirit? Is Wisdom God making things happen? We discussed how images and ideas of God either helped or hindered people’s understanding of God. The concept of the Trinity is difficult and many people do not understand how God can be one and three at the same time. The idea of a completely ample Trinity is a difficulty for many people. We develop our relationship with God through our ideas and images of God. In some countries Jesus is still portrayed as a white westerner. This led to a discussion on the recent book “The Shack”, which most of us had read, where God is portrayed as a black woman. All of us who had read the book had found it very helpful, but it is a book which many others have not liked at all. To have a continuous close relationship with God we need some picture in our minds.
Verse 12 is very personal and caring. Jesus understands how the disciples are going to feel and is trying to prepare them for what is to come.
Verse 13 stresses the close relationship between God the father, Jesus the Son, and the Spirit who is to declare “what is to come”. Does this refer to the end of all things or just a personal future for disciples?
In verses 14 & 15 Jesus says that the Spirit will take what belongs to Jesus i.e. what Jesus is and declare it to the disciples. All that Jesus has is God’s, and this is what the Spirit will declare and thus glorify God. The Spirit does not glorify Himself, so we can use this as a test for whether or not we are Spirit-led. If we think the Spirit is telling us to do something, we must ask whether this is a thing that Jesus would have done. If not, then it will not be the Holy Spirit encouraging us, but our own thoughts. In verse 15 Jesus’ relationship with God is made explicit, unlike in the synoptic gospels where it is only implied. Whatever is of God in Jesus the Spirit will take and pass on to disciples.
Grayston, in his commentary, says that, because the Spirit is the Spirit of truth, the information imparted will be complete, and the truth will lead to God through Jesus. Truth is love and, with the Spirit in us we will have truth in us and love in us, and be able to live out our lives in the knowledge of the truth we have received.
The question was asked whether or not this final discourse is John or Jesus speaking. The answer we gave was that this was probably like writing the notes up after a meeting. To make it clear for people who were not at the meeting, the notes sometimes take a different format from the meeting and appear in a different order of items; and the reader is not aware of who said exactly what. But the essence of what was said at the meeting is true.
Grayston says that the Spirit reminds us of what Jesus says and that the Father, Son and Spirit work in perfect unity. If John is writing up what he remembers about events, then it is the Spirit who is speaking through him, and therefore what he says or writes is valid.
In other verses the Spirit is referred to as “comforter” which could be seen as warm and fluffy but in fact “comforter” means “strengthener” and therefore enables people to overcome difficulties.
We thought that it was important to remember that these verses only stress the inter-relationship between Father, Son and Spirit and that there is no definite doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament. In verse 15 it is because everything Jesus has is God’s that the Spirit will take it and declare it to the disciples. In this passage it is this verse in particular which links Father, Son and Spirit together, as it is the task of the Spirit to declare God through Jesus the Son. And thus make God’s purposes known to us.
We were not sure exactly when the doctrine of the Trinity came into being. We thought that it was possibly at the “Council of Nicea”. Although according to Alister McGrath, Tertullian (c160 – 225) was known to have laid the foundations for a doctrine of the Trinity. but we knew that Luther took it up and it became very important to the Protestant church as it took thoughts away from worship of the Virgin Mary.
We felt at this point that Jesus wanted to go back to God because unless He did the Spirit could not come.
What would we preach on?
The new commandment that Jesus has given the disciples at the beginning of this final discourse: link the truth that the Spirit will impart, to love.
SC